Is Positioning Dead?

I'm having a friendly debate with Tom Asacker over on Brand Mantra.

I like the way Tom thinks - I don't always agree with him - obviously, but anyone who helps me expand or question my thinking is worth spending time with.

The debate started when Jennifer linked to my post, Managing the Total Customer Lifetime and Tom replied with the following:

...But I believe that the Ries' quote is meant to convey his dated idea (my opinion) of positioning. In Ries' opinion, the word Chevy doesn't mean successful to his hypothetical car buyer. And Ries doesn't believe it ever could, because it already occupies a well-established place in the buyer's mind...

I replied with:

...Do you really think positioning is dated? I think it is still a valid concept - owning a place in the persons mind, it makes sense...

The remaining comments are too long to capture their essence in snippet form.

But to summarize, I think Tom is confusing positioning with business evolution. Companies innovating and evolving to serve different markets, which has happened successfully more than once or twice (but certainly not every day). Tom brings up Nokia, which he says used to be in the Timber business, among other things. Sony and 3M are good examples from 'Built to Last' (Collins & Porras).

My contention is that businesses can evolve, but only if they meet or exceed consumers expectations of Cost, Quality and Delivery.

• Is the cost reasonable for what I'm getting?
  
• Is it a quality product?
  
• Does it deliver (meet/exceed) on my expectations?
  

So, what do you think? Is positioning dead?

Comments

[John Dumbrille]

I'm taking away new knowledge from this, thanks! If I have one quibble with the science of marketing is the tendency to believe in one's ability to engineer a "position." So many factors affect a postion. When I think of PR and other marketing initiatives, the image that comes to mind is trying to move a floating ball by ripple effects: throwing rocks near the ball can propell it, but the rocks are never uniform size anbd shape and the current and other external factors will inevitably take their toll.

[David]

I tend to agree with Jon on this one.

There will always be a position that a brand occupies in a potential customer's mind with regards to a competing brand. I do not believe that this is uniform for all customers.

For a given market segment, a particular position could be considered dated. The brand still exists, but the positioning has changed for the vast majority of the public.

[fouroboros]

Hmmm. Interesting debate.

Haven't seen one point brought up though. VW's market is a subtle "anti-market". Jettas and Passats compete with Toyotas and Hondas. Even though VW's been around since Dr Porsche was still frisky, since the 60s it's been positioned here (with some stumbles) as a thinking person's alternative.

To what?

To what everybody else pours themselves into and blobs along in. Who is doing the blobbing? And in what?

---

Rob, since I was going to ramble a bit further, rather than clog up your comments, I'll post the rest over at my place. Thanks for the thought provocation.

fouro

[fouroboros]

Er, I mean thanks Jon.

Gee, so many cool threads so many new names...